A comment piece in reaction to the hate and love against Romania in the British press, published in Romanian on contributors.ro
If you believe The Daily Mail, all Romanians are benefit frauds, pickpockets and secret millionaires of a specific minority and Romania is a country of mud-huts, sick horses, starving dogs and gated palaces of gold-plated window-frames and weather-cocks, built on the theft from hardworking British families.
But if you believe the The Guardian, all Romanians are gorgeous students destined to be UN Secretary General or Apple CEO and their country is an unspoilt paradise of rolling hills, organic farmers and playful bears.
However the truth is Romanians are just people are like people everywhere. They are great and they suck.
At the risk of attracting contempt for being prejudiced and simplistic, here is what I like and don’t like about Romanians.
LIKE
Openness: As a journalist in Romania, you call someone up, and they will talk to you. Even if they hate you and you hate them. Everyone wants to talk. Everyone has an opinion. In the UK, people will put the phone down on you. In Romania, people answer the phone even when they speaking at a podium in a conference or while they are giving birth. They rarely say anything of much significance, but they sure are friendly. One problem is that politicians talk too much. They spend all day talking to reporters and all evening talking on chat shows. Don’t these Ministers have jobs? Don’t these people have sex? As a journalist, I can’t believe I am giving this advice to Romanian politicians, but please, please, please stop talking to journalists.
DON’T LIKE
Sexism: Why is it that when Romanian men walk into a crowded room, they shake all the hands of the other men, but avoid physical contact with the women? Do they see the women when they enter the room? Are these men woman-blind? If a woman in the public eye takes time on her appearance, she is labelled a “whore”, but if she chooses not to, she is a “tramp”. Men are judged on what they say, women on how they look – it’s pathetic. Most Romanian women I speak to hate Feminism. But this country need Feminism like it needs working traffic lights and free and fair elections.
LIKE
Grudge-free. I have friends and family in the UK whom I have not spoken to for ten years over a small argument some drunken evening, the reason for which I cannot remember. But here in Romania, you can have a shout at your friends, girlfriend, boyfriend and colleagues, with a preposterous level of personal abuse and the next day, no one cares. The past is a joke. No one holds a grudge.
DON’T LIKE
Deadlines: Why can’t Romanians stick to deadlines? When I edited a magazine in Romania, we set three deadlines for receiving material back from interviewees – in chronological order – the deadline we asked for, the deadline we hoped for and, finally, the deadline we expected. There’s a reason it’s called a deadline. It’s about to expire.
LIKE
Ingenuity: Give a German a lighter, he will see a piece of plastic, a barrel, a flint and a small amount of petrol. Give a Russian a lighter, he will see a bunch of ingredients that can help him get high. Give a Romanian a lighter and he can take it apart and reconstruct it into a generator that heats a small farm.
DON’T LIKE
Victims: In Romania, everyone suffers, but no one is guilty. The Prime Minister speaks of being a victim of the President, the President a victim of the Prime Minister. Everyone else in Romania believes they are a victim of the fact that the President and the Prime Minister can’t agree who is the victim and who is the culprit.
LIKE
Enterprising. Romanians want to know how to succeed. They have a list of ten steps to achieve success. They stick to them. Fulfil them. Where there is a strict framework for delivery, they work brilliantly. Not like the English, who are always trying to think outside of the box. This is fine. But most of the time, the box is there for a reason. Up against an ambitious Romanian, no one has a chance.
DON’T LIKE
Too enterprising: Everyone wants to be a boss, but no one wants to collaborate. On the upside, you have a nation of entrepreneurs. Everyone has a small business. But because they find it hard to work subordinate to other people, few make money and when they continue to not make money, they don’t close their business. They let it live on in a coma. Romanians are great at starting a business, not so good at running one.
LIKE
Honesty: A Romanian female friend in Southampton told me: ‘What is it with Englishmen? They tell me they love me and two weeks later, they leave me.’ ‘It’s because they are only after sex,’ I said. ‘No,’ she answered, ‘they tell me they love me after sex. But still they leave me. Doesn’t love mean anything to them?’ Romanians are honest with their feelings. They take feelings seriously. The British will show their true feelings when they are drunk and steal them back when sober. The Brits tend to be straight in business, but unscrupulous with emotions. It’s the reverse for Romanians.
DON’T LIKE
Sick: Whenever I tell a Romanian that I have a cold, their first response is “Why?” Why am I sick? I am sick because I am sick. No, they imply, there must be a reason for your sickness. You must have done something wrong. Worn the wrong clothes. Touched the wrong person. Eaten the wrong food. You are guilty of illness.
LIKE
Positive. This may sound strange to Romanians, but since coming here, I have found people are always positive. If you suggest starting a new venture, they will says yes to collaborating (I am aware this contradicts a previous statement). The venture may be popular, admired and innovative, the only downside being – it probably won’t make money. Nevertheless, people have an uncynical attitude to building a modern nation. Romania is the country that likes to say yes.
Michael Bird Writer & Journalist 
Dear Michael, just a short note on your otherwise veryinteresting article. In Romania, men shake hands only with other men (in both formal and informal occasions). Whenever a man and a woman meet they either greet without any handshake in case of a formal context or they kiss on the cheeks in any friendly, informal occasion. Old-fashioned men still kiss the hand of a woman they meet, but that is rather rare nowadays.
We could use hugs for women. Great article!
Shaking hands with women depends on region. In Timisoara is normal to shake hand with a woman, in Iasi it is strange. One case might be jealosy. Shaking hand it is still considered a personal gesture, not a business one.
Usually you only shake hands with a woman if she has the initiative. For a man to initiate a handshake with a woman is rude. As a man, you are supposed to treat women as women. If you shake hands with them, it’s like treating them like men. It’s the woman’s call whether she wants this or not.
Romanian men kiss among themselves (usually 2 times on the cheeks) when they meet (usually after long time of not having seen each other). But they don’t shake hands with women, indeed, most often not even in business meetings in multinational companies. Changing cultural habits takes time. But it’s not a big drama. Other issues count more, either with plus, or with minus.
People don’t need to change cultural habits (at least not those that don’t hurt anyone). It’s beautiful to have a world where people are not identical.
The ones from outside need to adapt.
My most recent (and only) hatred of Romania are the authorities from the President down to the local councils.
Despite Baia Mare in 2000 and Certej de sus in 1971, Judas Ponta has changed his opinion now he is in power and today, wishes to poison the populace via the disgraceful Rosia Montana exploitation. He is in league with his former enemy, Caiaphas Basescu!
Also there are suspicious road changes planned by the Bucuresti council that will cause devastation in North Bucuresti. The existence of the excellent Muzeul Taranului Roman may well be affected by the road changes.
I am sorry to say that these authorities seem to have the feeling that Ceausescu and/or the Soviets are still in charge and can steamroller anything that will make them money!
Imi place Romania.
Don’t confuse Ceausescu with the current regime. How unfortunate the communist regime was, he was trying to build a country he could be proud of unlike the current one which just try to build personal fortunes/favors.
I agree on some things, but the sexism thins is plainly wrong. “Man are judged on what they say, women on how they look” Generalizing much? I am a woman in Romania and have always been successful on things I worked and said even if I could not care less on how I dressed or looekd. And I have always been treated with respect, like anyone else I know and I have travelled and worked with hundreds and hundreds of people in all kinds of environments. Women in Romania do not need to be patted on the head and told everything is ok. They already know they are equal partners in the discussion (one of the terribly few good things brought by communism) and act like it. You may still find problems in the small cities and villages, but that’s pretty much it.
You’re saying that sexism isn’t a problem in Romania? I lived in Bucharest for a while and found this issue on a daily bases. I could give out an example for almost every single day that I lived there. It’s all around you, you just got used to it and therefore think it’s normal. It’s a lot easier to see it once you live outside the country. I completely agree with the statement he makes here and that the country needs a lot more feminists and woman power. As a woman, I find it odd that you don’t agree with that. You can’t just let yourself be fooled just because you have a good job and you’re well respected, or at least it’s what you think.
lol, it depends on your background. it is their culture and you aren’t used to it.
Bucharest, being the place where millions end up, is also filled with crappy people. Of both genders. The person that refused to hire me beacause I was not pretty enough to serve her clients in a bar was a woman. But that does not mean it’s systemic. So now, if I’m respected and happy, I should look for a male conspiracy or something and exit the Matrix, because it’s impossible for women to have that? Kind of a damaging mindframe. Maybe we should just dismiss crappy people for what they are and not judge entire categories for the deeds of a few, It’s better for one’s state of mind and inter-human relations.
@Cristina, so true.
It’s so sad that a lot of romanian women don’t even realize the misogyny in Romania and they think it is normal, because they don’t know anything else. Only after you have worked and lived in a western european country, you can fully notice the difference in the mentalities. And it’s not just about work, most of the men (and sadly also many women) in Romania still think that it’s the woman’s duty to cook and generally to take care of the household (even if they have a job and earn as much as the man). If a woman has the same sex life as a man, she is automatically labelled as slut or something similar. And I could go on…
I see some good changes in the younger generation and I am happy for it, but it’s true, the country still needs a lot, a lot of feminism.
PS: I’m not saying that the western countries don’t have theirs issues with feminism, they do, I think no country has reached a level of complete equality so far (maybe Iceland or some northern countries, I don’t know…). However, when you compare them, Romania still scores pretty low in my opinion.
A Romanian is right, I’m a guy, and for example I would be fairly sexist regarding you concepts but not A Romanian’s 🙂 although, you are both women. It’s all about the individual and not the gender. A well balanced and self confident individual will not have your frustrations and will be regarded somewhat different by others 😉
well, I am (as far as I know) the only female doing a certain job in .ro. In around 10 years of doing „a man’s job”, I worked with an overwhelming majority of men and worked for thousands of people of all kinds of social statuses. Either I was obnoxiously lucky or I REALLY don’t know where the heck are all the misoginist you people are talking about. Really.
Of course, if you apply for jobs like, I don’t know, salt mining, and you are 1.50m/35 kg, maybe you’ll be treated funny, but maybe that just because you’re probably looney. Don’t blame failures on puny stuff like „my boss hates women”. If you do your job like any other employee you’ll be treated as such. I should know, been there, done that.
And maybe, I’m not saying that as a general rule, some women feel somehow superior and really do behave like they should deserve respect just because they are women, which I believe is plain wrong. You EARN respect, not deserve it by default.
I am so sorry for you ladies who found the few idiots that think otherwise, but if you choose to think of yourselves as „women” and not „persons”, the problem starts with you.
True that. And while I’m still here, I may add that Romanian girl has a strong point, too.
A Romanian, I cannot believe I am agreeing, but here I am, saying: EXACTLY! I feel the same as you, and I also think it’s one of the few (very, very few) perks that communism brought about. I truly feel Romania is less of a sexist country than many other European and non-European ones.
I have to agree with the observation that Romania has an issue with sexism. As an American Latino, that lives there(3 years), I see this every day. The problem that occurs, is many, if not most women, thrive on it. This is not to say they are “weak” or “timid”, on the contrary, they are strong, passionate, intelligent women. The true difference, is culturally they were raised to embrace, and flaunt there femininity. While men on the other hand, are raised to be strong, viral, and very prolific. Fundamentally the men and women are acting out very archaic and in many ways primal human behavior. Ask any women what they think of American, or British women, and you will get a two hour lecture about how they forgot what it was to be a women. Simply put Romanian women tease and flaunt, there attributes, they are proud of them, they will put on make-up even to exit there flat for a loaf of bread. They will wear High heals, with a short dress in the middle of a winter storm(crazy i know), and they want to be chased. As an American, this was a far cry from my culture, but as a Latino, it was very familiar. They want their men to be men to be strong, and self assured, they want to be chased, they want to have physical, and financial security. they will get angry if, and in many instances argue with you that men dont “Do laundry”. I love to cook, and do it often for my friends, and Girlfriend, you want to see the truth of romanian women? Watch as they fidget while you cook them a meal….”can i help, what can i do” they feel Guilty, and if you cook for them to many times they will go overboard in cleaning, pushing you out of the kitchen, doing laundry, or down right fight with you. I have also had one girlfriend promise me not to tell her friends, and family that i do most of the cooking, because she was ashamed.. …..sorry rambling…but you get the picture.
That is very true. romanian women are going to feed you to the wolves if you tell them that your boyfriend is cooking/cleaning alongside with you. i didn’t think this mentality existed until i moved to another country actually. at home i lived in a nice bubble that burst as soon as i touched foreign land.
nowadays some consider that the house chores and cooking should be shared between the two,but mainly the women do the cooking and house chores especially in countryside.our mentality as romanians is slowly changing, if you ask me,but only due to the youngsters ,students who go to other countries and spread their knoledge.In small isolated villages ,the mentality regarding the relatiun between a man and a woman i old fashioned thus some may still consider women are only good for a few things-so sexism appears-but once the women prove themselves they can shut up their own husbands-this depends on the education rate -so in some cases the woman can be the boss in the couple relation,-my parents case-,
As a Romanian woman, I have to agree 100% with the above mentioned statements. Yes, I never, ever, in my 35 years life felt discriminated against, I`ve been certainly been paid as well as my other male colleagues (sometimes even more) and I never felt that I have something to prove, to fight harder than the males to get somewhere or to be taken seriously. This handshake thingy is something cultural. In the minds of the Romanian guys, the hand kiss is the most polite thing to do, but in business environments, this can be misinterpreted as unnecessary chivalry, However, the handshake may be considered too blunt, and not chivalrous at all. That`s why most of the ppl linger in between, until the woman makes the first move. Whenever you reach out for a handshake, you will see somehow of a relief in the eyes of the interlocutor 🙂 Like, thank God I don`t really have to kiss her hand 🙂 And yes, I agree, communism had a lot to do with reducing the gap between the sexes.
Look, I don’t know where you grew up and where you live and work now, but I lived in Romania for 30 years, in Transylvanian town, which is the cultural centre of the region. So not in some remote village in Moldova or Oltenia. Still, as a girl and as a woman I had to face on a daily basis the fact that I am “just” female. Doctors were using the non-polite form with me, even gynecologists, officialities didn’t take you seriously if you were not dressed like a serious lady, but wearing jeans or mini, if you were clever, you had to prove that “BUT I can also cook”. If I was wearing a short skirt, any men could pinch my bottom on the street or make comments. At work it was normal that men called us “darling” and made comments about our weight or breasts. And if we complained, they said that we shoudl feel honoured: “at least” we are considered attractive. It doesnt matter that some women can make carreers: the market is still for men. Communism did not reduce the gap between the sexes: it just gave men the right to demand not just housework and childcare from women, but also contribution to finances and higher education.
@frauenbach, you are so right. I am a romanian woman (who grew up in Romania) and I totally agree with you. I’ve had the same experiences.
Both sides are right! There is sexism in form – horrible expressions and jokes – but much less so in fundamentals. I spent 13 years in Canada and I know that much fewer Romanians will have a problem with a women being their boss than Canadians. The political correctness makes everyone shut up in the West and it only now starting to influence Romanian life (very slooowly).
Honey, I am sure that it happens to you on a daily basis. The problem is that you do not notice it… It is sad how Romanian women juts refuse to believe that we are discriminated against, because maybe, just maybe they will have to fight for equality.. When I call out sexism no woman stand by me… sometimes I want to cry, because everyday I get discriminated against only because I am a woman.
“When I call out sexism no woman stand by me”
If that’s the case than maybe you’re the one with the problem, not society or other women. Just because you don’t like something doesn’t mean it’s a problem, it just means you have a problem.
@somebody, come on, I’m sick of this attitude of some men, who are saying that it is all in the women’s minds.
When I was a teenager in Romania, it happened to me often that they guys were just talking dirty to me on the street (without me knowing them) or they even tried to touch me or pinch me. Because of these stupid things I was sometimes afraid to walk alone and no, I didn’t live in a dangerous area or something. To make things worse and even more sexist, when I told some guys about it, they said that I was attracting them because I was “too sexy”, so somehow I was again to blame.
In the country I live now in western Europe I have never met this kind of behavior or mentality .. in so many years!
So please, just please, have some respect and don’t tell me that I imagined those things or that I have a problem too.
Please stop seeing us Romanian girls as poor souls and stop pitying us. Why do you try so hard to push down our throats that feminism is the best? When we will feel oppressed we will stand up for ourselves…
ok fine, ask me stuff you think I refuse to believe. If you prove to me that I am being discriminated, I promise I will agree with you.
@o fata din bucuresti
please explain why feminism is ”the worst” as opposed to ”the best”. please. and of course we don’t face sexism in romania and we don’t any any type of engaged gender democrat activists (since you seem to be allergic to the word feminism). at the end of the day, women political representation in under 10%; the flourishing trafficking in human rights is focused on sexual exploitation of women (with romania as a source country); the gender gap is 12%; rape victims and domestic violence victims are always to be blamed since they `are asking for it` etc etc etc. right, we are still waiting for you to stand up at a certain point. with or without any feminist `stigma`.
We have a lot of problems with sexism… Maybe we, women, are getting paid as much as men do but what about the laws that permit men having abusive behavior and “control”. A lot of women, especially in Bucharest are getting molested and raped in plain day in front of others who don’t do anything. A lot of women feel disgraceful and fear about the men when they walk on streets. The little boys (not all, of course!) take bad education from their parents and become violent agressors. Because no one does anything against violation…
ONE woman was kidnapped to be raped in plain view, which is not a matter of sexism, but of the bystander effect. It’s sad, but it could happen to anyone, regardless of gender.I have never heard a women being afraid to go out in the street and I have lived both in Moldova and Transylvania and also visited Bucharest. Of course, if you go in dangerous areas in the middle of the night, your iPhone may get stolen, but that is basic knowledge and has nothing to do with sexism. As about the laws that allow men to be in control, there is no such thing. Stop complaining about Romania and check out the proposed legislation in Afghanistan, where it would be impossible to testify against a relative (so most domestic violence cases are dismissed). We are perfectly fine in Romania, with the normal exception of a**holes.
I almost forgot – I shake hands with men quite often, it’s much better than kissing oin the cheek or something else as I really hate physical contact. And it’s a simple issue to solve – you just stretch out your hand and smile. Men aren’t such bad folks, you know 🙂 they’sr ejust awkward like all of us at times
I find both handshaking and cheek kissing ok, but there are also men that refuse handshaking because they respect women. At least in eastern Romania handshaking is considered an insult and a humiliating gesture towards women; this simple act is part of the culture and doesn’t necessarily mean discrimination. I personally stretched my hand towards a man i knew that wasn’t really interested or attracted to me – he was surprised, told me that he wouldn’t ever do such thing to me and he kissed my hand instead. I seems handshaking suggests making a business, and categorises woman as “sluts”.
might be time to brush up on your English – to plait means to interweave, whereas plated means covered with a metal.
Also, as “A Romanian” and “Alexandra” say, you need to brush up on your understanding of Romanian culture and how people greet one another. It has nothing to do with “feminism” or the lack thereof.
Thanks for the edit, changed, with respect
That is another thing I “don’t like” – a tiny typo or slip and they throw the baby with the dirty water :))
There is sexism in Romania, but not because men dont shake women hands or don’t pay them enough attention in public meetings. For instance I shake women hands with no problem or prejudice (actually I prefer to interact with them in this way rather than kiss or wave), but they seem to be “afraid” to shake mine.
The funniest sexist things are about women driving. Talk to a taxi driver, in Bucharest preferably. He will explain to you in great detail and with many examples that women (and only women) are very bad drivers. Why? BECAUSE THEY ARE WOMEN 🙂
PS: the best part of the article: “Everyone wants to be a boss, but no one wants to collaborate.”. Although I think its better to say “cooperate”, for Romanians “collaborate” is a term that brings back some sad memories of collaborationism in Securitate times.
Well women are, in their nature, worst drivers than men. It’s not sexist to say that because they do not have the same level of spatial coordination as men. That’s very much a scientific fact, as men’s spatial coordination Has been a requirement from the early age of humanity, as they were hunters. There are, of course, exceptions in both genders, but the fact remains. Women are behind in that department, as men are behind in the multitasking department where women excel.
A scientific fact, you say? Scientific “facts” are data looked at from a subjective view… Look it up, it is a scientific fact..
Dear Oltean, could you please give me some links to the latest (no, make it last 30 years) scientific articles that give such evidence? I am interested in proper scientific data and evidence, published in serious magazines etc, and I am sure you can easily find it, as you say that its a scientific fact that women “are behind in that department”. Thank you! By the way, I have never been taught in any school, high school or university about this. DId I miss out something?
@frauenbach
Here’s an article that’s pretty close to what you’re asking for.
http://www.theguardian.com/science/2013/dec/02/men-women-brains-wired-differently
An example of a perfectly valid comment that would get this guy crucified anywhere in the west. Romania needs feminism like a horse needs a glue factory.
Hey guys, it’s not to say that there are exceptions to the rule. I’ve seen quite a few women that are fine drivers, but on average, they’re not. It’s just how nature works. On average, a woman cannot do some of the things a man can, just like a man can’t do some of the things a woman can. It’s not sexism. It’s nature.
try this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1yQ1BcT5flw
Why men don’t listen and women can’t read maps
“Well women are, in their nature, worst drivers than men. It’s not sexist to say that because they do not have the same level of spatial coordination as men.” That’s not how logic or evidence work. Unless you actually have evidence to back up the fact that “women are worse drivers” (not “worst”), then this is just another sexist remark. It would also be nice of you to define your terms. What exactly does “worse drivers” mean?
Great article! Finally a more accurate view on Romania.
This is the main problem, in general, when people tend to label other people or nations based on very little information and usually when something bad happens. The opinion shifts as soon as the information changes, becomes more vast, with both good and bad of those people or nations, which happened in your case as well.
if you think that only because we men don’t shake hands with womens we are sexist then you are shallow. as an example in belgium, on walon side men kiss each others cheek, and shake women’s hands. do you think the walons are sexist too?
well done Michael,
best
dandraghicescu.com
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very nice article, it made me smile and be a little bit more optimistic 🙂
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When we ask you why you got sick, we’re not implying that you’re guilty of your illness. But you don’t get sick just like that, there is always a reason behind it, whether you realize it or not. Our asking you about it doesn’t mean we judge you, it’s just concern or curiosity.
Besides the controversy your article started in here, I had a really good fun reading it. I believe it’s a succinct anthropological summary of Romanians.
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White heterosexual males are racist, sexist and homophobe, aren’t they? What paper did you work for in the UK? The Guardian by any chance?
Congrats on the article, it’s a refreshing change! At one point I had to do some research into cultural differences in the region (and beyond: i.e. UK, US) for a seminar and it was very revealing, so I’ll give you my take on some of the points you made. Being a “victim” is part of the national consciousness all over the region (Romania, Hungary, Serbia, etc) and with good reason (up to a point). In Romania authority figures are traditionally thought of as: arrogant, bossy and possibly even incompetent. Again, no surprise, but it’s a vicious circle: Romanians try to avoid submitting to such figures but as entrepreneurs they often turn into such figures themselves because of all the bad examples. I’d bet most Romanians would trust a foreign (western) boss over one of their own 8 times out of 10, as they are rarely worse, so with their background they can tolerate them better. It’s why they do pretty well in the corporate sector (until the practices of the higher-ups start adapting to local standards). You really nailed ambition and positive attitude, even though few Romanians would admit to this. They are very driven and persistent even in less than ideal circumstances. The handshake thing is totally off though, as it hardly has anything to do with outright sexism. In this part of the world when introducing yourself you shake hands with everybody, but from then on it is considered inappropriate for a man and a woman to touch hands unless they are romantically involved. Respect is shown by proper greetings and affection is shown by a slight hug/cheek-kiss. Old-school “gender role” sexism is present in Romanian society as a whole, but the public sphere is doing quite all right. You are also right about Romanians being open and friendly, the “human” aspect of things is very important to them so they are pleasant to interact with, especially if you are a foreigner and they want to make a good impression on you. As to a gross generalisation about how others may come across to Romanians: Britons- pleasant yet inflexible, Americans- well meaning yet too assertive, Germans- very proper yet intolerant, Scandinavians- easy going yet too idealistic.
You don’t know shit about RO.
Haha true dat
interesting, yet not exhaustive. i can think of a million other things one could single out of our public or private behaviour.
the thing is, we encounter a few hundred people, but cannot infer from them the features of a whole nation.
This is why samples exist and statistical inference. To generalize within a margin of error.
well, the article above has nothing to do with statistics 🙂
I must say that you jumped too fast on conclusions. I think you didn’t stay enough in this country and you make only some assumptions about it. For instance, romanian people don’t take feelings seriously as you said. We are humans so we are different. Some romanian people are players and some are serious. Simple as that.
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I agree with most of the tings you observed, and i think i know why we are a tad sexist as a whole.. it is because we are so used to being treated that way that we tend to not notice when we are discriminated against.
Our mothers tought us that we have to work full time (more than 10 hours a day, most of the time) and be good housewifes, that we fail in life if our house is not always verry clean and our family often eats out, that cleaning, cooking, washing clothes and dishes are unfit for males, and when we face the real world, we do not see that this is not really right and fair.
Are you sure that you have been to Romania and not to another country??? If yes, then you tend to generalize waaaay too much .Nothing you’ve said is a general truth 🙂
From what I know, it is disrrectful to shake hands with a woman. A verbal salutation or a kiss on the cheek, if the relationship is close enough.
I personally find it weird when brits don’t shake hands in a normal social context.
Good article, with one exception. Romanian men do not shake hands with women because it´s considered impolite, it has nothing to do with sexism. A woman is either kissed on the cheek, if you know her well, or not touched at all. The key is that one is not supposed to treat women as men, but more attentive, let´s say. I live in Western Europe and I have come across many who think this is rude, or sexist. It´s not, it´s just different from what you´re used to….
I love Romanian women. And I think they should stay as their are. They know how to be sexy, they know when it is the time to be strong, they know when they have to act to get what they want and they will break your neck if you f.k it. And they don’t give a shit on any feminism movement because they know they will break your neck with or without any kind of training, feminist movement, sexism, etc. That’s why Romanian women, most of them, don’t care about sexism: because they have the power anyway.
I couldn’t have said it better myself. bravo!
Yeah they have the power if they have the right cleavage to seduce you, otherwise you treat them of something less than a woman. The woman in Romanian are in so deep they are believing absolutely everything that the men tell them of how they should act in society, they were raised that way, it’s a norm that they don’t have control over at this point to change. I mean, what can you expect if little boys and girls are raised watching half naked women telling the weather on TV, they grow up thinking it’s normal to objectify women, so of course feminism won’t prevail if those little girls grow up in that environment. And that sad part is, if those little girls try to act a little risky and dress like the women she saw on TV growing up, she’ll be called a slut and be treated as a piece of dirthe and she doesn’t know what went wrong because on Facebook she gets 500 likes on a half naked photo and then in real life she gets bashed on how provocative she is. Sorry for the rant but as a Romanian born woman that grew up in the U.S. I find it so sad that a majority of women in Romania aren’t even realizing the crap they go though and how they even start poking fun at themselves and how “stupid” they are for not being able to drive. WOMEN CAN DRIVE JUST AS WELL AS MEN EXCEPT WOMEN IN ROMANIA ARE RAISED TO THINK THAT THEY CAN’T JUST BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT A MALE.
i hate shaking hands….i hate to toch every man i meet.
There may be sexism, but it is much better than no gender-specific tasks.
I feel that a world where woman work on construction sites, man wait for a woman to open the door for them, woman have to protect a man from a thief, man have to go shopping for clothes for her (we know that you have to actually look for hours before finding what you really like), etc… would be very sad.
The evolution of thousand of years have made the man good for tasks and woman good others. That’s why we have to live as a couple, we were made one for another to complete each-other, not to compete.
I am a young woman and I dislike touching other people by shaking hands or giving them my hand for kissing because it makes me feel very uncomfortable. I love touching and kissing my friends and loved ones a lot. I think this is simply in our mindset as Romanians.
Like/dislike: have you considered the possibility that there can’t be the likes without the dislikes?
OTOH, I think your views might be biased by the people you get in touch with.
The wast majority of working Romanians are employed, rather than running their own business, and have never started a business on their own.
Sexism goes both ways – we’re simply more aware that men and women aren’t similar, and don’t have a problem in acting upon it.
Grudge-free … I think not so much in certain regions of the country.
Openness … maybe choosing the Brits for comparison wasn’t such a good idea. And again, it depends on the region. Also, since you’re not used to it, you might mistakenly interpret directness as openness. OTOH, there’s a requirement for good behavior in British-influenced cultures that says you should try to say something nice, when you talk to somebody, or not say something at all. That sort of makes it hard to be open – nobody likes everybody all of the time. (Try going to California to see what that does to people – everything is shiny and bright even if you’re strongly suicidal.)
Sickness … it’s not about guilt, it’s something that you should be able to avoid. Unless you discover what it was that caused your sickness, you’re bound to become sick again. It’s not something that’s supposed to happen regularly, so obviously it was caused by some unusual event – simply something you don’t go through on a regular basis. It’s just something we are used to do – discover what that event was so we can avoid it in the future.
Deadlines … yeah, I hate this too. But in a country with unreliable public transport, crowded roads, hugely understaffed and mostly stupid traffic police, too many bad drivers and highly undisciplined walkers and bicycle riders, occasionally huge queues and unreliable working hours at offices/counters in public institutions, it’s somehow to be expected.
@anonymous coward. After reading your posting I realized he forgot to mention that we are masters in avoiding responsibility and guilt.😃
I think most of the people argue that the sexism fact is not true, because that really is the only thing not true about Romania. I am truly guilty of not meeting deadlines myself.
Romanian, male, 42 y/o. I am amused to see everybody talks about sexism and hand shaking protocols but no one takes on no-cooperative mentality, not meeting the deadlines, not getting in time at the meetings, no one wanting to be worker/employee (75-80% or Romanians wanting to be manager/boss/business owner. this is associated, since communist times, with no-work-but-big-income).
Why should we comment upon those points, if they are valid? We all know that romanians love to be bosses, to own a business. And we also know that, a lot of romanians are non-cooperative, especially in the poorer places in Romania, like Moldova. Some actually hold a grudge against you if you have a successful life and theirs is not as glamorous, instead of being happy for you, or if that’s too hard, at least neutral, minding their own business. 🙂
Damn, well said. Really well said. So many Romanians are vindictive and bitter over the success of other fellow Romanians.
Still on the handshake theme… In Romania, often men won’t shake hands with a woman – because she is not offering.
Straight from the Romanian good manners guide, it’s common courtesy for the person in the ‘superior’ position (aka boss, elderly person, or female – in that order) to offer their hand, if they want to shake hands. Thus, for a man to proceed to shake hands with ‘superiors’ in the room without them offering, it’s a violation of good manners – and private space. As a woman, I can say that I actually prefer not having to shake hands, so I’m comfortable with this rule.
That being said, yes, there still is a lot of sexism in a lot of places and quite fair equal treatment in some others.
It seems sexism made most comments. Shaking hands man with women is a cultural drawback, fueled by the indifference of women with regard to feminism. Without generalizing (in fact in all statements I talk about proportions of population), people still consider that feminism is for ugly women, whereas Romanian females have more sophisticated weapons. Sometimes they may be right.
I liked this arcticle. Thanks for supporting us and cryticising us we need both in order to change something in this country or the mentality of these people.
There is a saying: offer him (a Romanian) a finger and it will take the whole hand. And this apply here, offer Romanians an article about them, and they will comment on it until death :))
You don’t know all Romanians, just some. I could agree only with the title: what I like about Romanians I know.
Good day!
Actually that was the meaning of the article: an impression based on his own experience. It’s always the same confusion: people get offended when they feel it is about ALL. But it’s never about all, it’s just more than something they compare to. There was the same confusion about Boia’s book “De ce e Romania altfel”, or about an obscure article some time ago suggesting Romanian women were whores.
Anyway, don’t take it so literally! And, by the way, have an excellent day!
Soooo not true.
Good piece of text!
Very good article, but it has a little flaw on the sexism part. I think that you misunderstood the part where the man shakes hands with a woman. You are seeing this from the wrong angle. I can actually remember when i was very young and my grandmother told me that i have becomed a big man and is should start shaking men’s hands but not a woman’s hand because it’s disrespectful. So if you see my point, not shaking hands with a woman is not a sign of sexism but actually a sign of respect where she is placed on a pedestal. We usually kiss a woman on the cheeks or hug but this happens in a personal matter, when it comes to business and work related relations we tend to wait for the woman to make the first step, and a man will always shake her hand gladly.
Hi! Loved the article! I’m Romanian-born and most of what you said is absolutely true. I particularly love the “Romania is the country that likes to say yes!” Thank you for sharing your impressions!
Speaking about sickness… You are asked why you are sick not because someone or something must be guilty for that… Its just a way somebody try to show you that she / he is concerned about your health status. If this is honest or not, thats another story.
True that. I’ve lived in the UK and I can say that while I was there, no one has shown me genuine interest. I have met all kinds of people, made friends and so on. But there’s a level of coldness and imposed limits when it comes to social relations. They can be your friend, but let’s just stick to fairweather friends. In Romania, when you tie a friendship, it’s filled with feelings and kind gestures, once you meet someone who you consider good friend material, you treat them like they’re family. I have yet to experience something similar in any other country. 🙂
I am Romanian and I live in Bulgaria. can I start sharing my opinions about Bulgarians? 😉
yes, you can.
Great round-up overall but about the Sexism part, I must disagree. Romanian men are actually very open minded when it comes to women, especially the younger generations, starting from 40 years and below. They don’t shake hands with women because it’s not gentleman..ish, you politely greet and acknowledge her presence, even kiss her hand, or as someone else above in the comments said, if you are among friends, you just kiss one the cheeks, you know, like italians or french. :p
The only time when it’s common for a man and a woman to shake hands, is when they are introduced to each other for the first time.
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Nicholas: anyway, it’s amazing how many Romanians speak an almost perfect English…
We get thought English, in writing, from kindergarten, so, we can get quite good at it. But, because we don’t get to speak it a lot (only hear it), we do get the pronouciation wrong sometimes. We tend to pronounce things closer to their French correspondent.
*taught, damn.
There’s a bad urban “legend” which says that only the prostitutes shake hands with men and this “legends” is known both by men and women. So, this is one of the reasons that shaking hands between different genders it’s not so popular in Ro…not the sexism. We love women more than we love ourselves 😀
Interestingly enough is the fact that comment in Romanian are written in an abbreviated, incorrect and grammatically wrong form, being too lazy to type, but in English, they won`t miss a comma 🙂
I have to partially(mostly) disagree with the sexism part.
There’s a girl who said that she was afraid to walk on street because guys were harassing her. I am a guy and when I was a teenager I was also harassed by some guys while I was walking home from school. They were asking for money (not much) or hit me for no reason, but I don’t think they were doing this because I was a guy. I also didn’t live in a dangerous area. As an adult it’s impossible to be harassed, but as a youngster it’s like that. There are jerks in Romania, but those who mistreat women are not treating guys any better. Obviously, they don’t pinch guys’ buts, but they are jerks with anyone. I know a company where all females are doing 95% office work and males are doing 60% field work. If you only consider statistics, this is sexist, but if some field work is assigned to a woman, most likely she will try to delegate it to some man in the company. Even though field work is definetely more demanding (because you go home when you finish, not when work hours ends) than office work(you go home at 16:30), the salaries are adjusted so that men and women gets paid, more or less, the same. It’s true that men don’t usually want to be paired with women for field work, but that’s just because in a 2 person team, the guy would have to carry all the equipment even though a woman would be able to carry 10kg equipment.
I think in Romania there are differences between genders, but this is not a bad think. Who thinks men and women are exactly the same, should just look down. Also who thinks all women are the same or all men are the same is also crazy. I think impediments in doing the “other’s gender” chores are rather exceptions than systematic. Most women in Romania like to do women’s jobs and most men, men’s jobs. Thos who don’t like their genders jobs have little to no problem to work in an opposite gender dominated job. Ofcourse there are also a lot of jobs that are not gender biased, but some are and I don’t see the problem with having a male dominated coal industry. Why should we force half of the women to be auto mechanics and half of the men to be hair stylists?
Romania doesn’t need feminism. I hope it never will. Modern style gender roles(both have jobs, share household duties on gender: man takes the trash out, woman cooks) are a better way of life than the independent feminist movement. That’s how couples work, on dependency and trust. The lack of couples and single people in other countries is a big mistake and makes people trully unhappy, on both genders.
In rest, I agree with most of the likes and dislikes.
No offense, really, because I don’t mean to offend you, but feminism has nothing to do with being a mother or cooking or anything like that. A woman can be married to a man and have children and still be a feminist. Feminism is about making your own choices. Whether a woman wants to have a family or not is her choice and hers alone.